Election - Who you voting for and why?

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Election - Who you voting for and why?

Postby Tappy » 07 Jun 2017, 10:10

EviL Ras wrote:Source of the post What survey did you guys use for that graph? I fancy giving it a whirl!


It was: https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ Took a while to do if you selected all of the categories. Think I got a bit bored toward the end.

A quote I like, no idea who said it, maybe Dave-from-down-the-pub is, "Most people are in favour of taxing the rich. However, no one thinks they are rich."

Voted this morning (postal). Found this little party called BNP. I assume they're a spin off from SNP but are all about Barking. Since SNP are popular at the moment, I thought I would go with them.
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Postby jurassicjim » 07 Jun 2017, 20:14

https://benjaminstudebaker.com/2017/06/ ... eresa-may/

An interesting read if the economy is one of your important issues.

J
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Postby Johnmcl7 » 07 Jun 2017, 21:37

Tappy wrote:Source of the post
EviL Ras wrote:Source of the post What survey did you guys use for that graph? I fancy giving it a whirl!


It was: https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ Took a while to do if you selected all of the categories. Think I got a bit bored toward the end.

A quote I like, no idea who said it, maybe Dave-from-down-the-pub is, "Most people are in favour of taxing the rich. However, no one thinks they are rich."

Voted this morning (postal). Found this little party called BNP. I assume they're a spin off from SNP but are all about Barking. Since SNP are popular at the moment, I thought I would go with them.


I can't find the source of the quote but it is good and certainly been well demonstrated earlier in this thread. Personally I do feel reasonably well off as I'm young, fit and healthy but I do worry about when I'm not and I'm going to need the NHS or rely on benefits because despite the paradise some people make it out to be, that isn't the reality and I really dislike the demonising of the poor and disabled that's common in the media. I do wonder if people like me should be putting a bit more into the system to protect the likes of the NHS and those who need the help although I realise it's not all a huge piggy bank and in years to come when I need the help, it could well be long gone.

While I'm amused at equating a £55,000 car to my £1,000 Mavic, I could defend that and my other luxuries by pointing out those are a result of my life choices - I don't have a hugely expensive car (in 20 years of motoring, not spent more than 25K combined on all my cars), I live in an inexpensive part of the country, I have no partner or children, I don't drink alcohol, I very rarely ever take holidays and rarely eat out. Plus I have a three year old phone which I got cheap as a German import and my PC I think is ticking on six years old...I realise the latter is hilariously in accurate but misleading omissions seem to be the way to go. While I could claim on that basis I'm hard done by, I would fully expect to be laughed at and the truth is I don't feel hard done by particularly when I know people who are genuinely struggling and haven't made any expensive life choices.

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Postby Johnmcl7 » 07 Jun 2017, 21:41

jurassicjim wrote:Source of the post https://benjaminstudebaker.com/2017/06/ ... eresa-may/

An interesting read if the economy is one of your important issues.

J


The problem I find with this article even though I'm not a fan of the Conservatives is the language is immediately offputting as it suggests a strong bias straight off the bat. I'm also wary of lots of fancy graphs when discussing economics, even in fields I am familiar with it's still easy to mislead and the independence referendum was a great example in how misleading they could be as on an almost daily basis there would be graphs showing similar data from both sides but would show a positive outcome for their side. I'm not convinced the Conservative approach is the right one but nor am I convinced on the SNP approach that everyone can have everything they want, the Corbyn camp seem to have switched to a very similar approach over the last few weeks.

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Postby jurassicjim » 08 Jun 2017, 08:44

Johnmcl7 wrote:Source of the post
jurassicjim wrote:Source of the post https://benjaminstudebaker.com/2017/06/ ... eresa-may/

An interesting read if the economy is one of your important issues.

J


The problem I find with this article even though I'm not a fan of the Conservatives is the language is immediately offputting as it suggests a strong bias straight off the bat. I'm also wary of lots of fancy graphs when discussing economics, even in fields I am familiar with it's still easy to mislead and the independence referendum was a great example in how misleading they could be as on an almost daily basis there would be graphs showing similar data from both sides but would show a positive outcome for their side. I'm not convinced the Conservative approach is the right one but nor am I convinced on the SNP approach that everyone can have everything they want, the Corbyn camp seem to have switched to a very similar approach over the last few weeks.

John


Yeah, I agree with the language and the initial sense of bias, I work with figures and stats as my day job, and like you say it's very easy to skew numbers depending on what you want to show.

However, I have seen a few of these types of reports from different, seemingly well qualified individuals, and all seem to have a similar conclusion - that the Tories are not running things any better than a Labour governments of the past have, and potentially worse.

I have tried looking and I cannot find any studies that find the show an opposite conclusion. If anyone has seen any I'd be interested to read them.

j
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Postby Johnmcl7 » 08 Jun 2017, 15:14

jurassicjim wrote:Source of the post
Johnmcl7 wrote:Source of the post
jurassicjim wrote:Source of the post https://benjaminstudebaker.com/2017/06/ ... eresa-may/

An interesting read if the economy is one of your important issues.

J


The problem I find with this article even though I'm not a fan of the Conservatives is the language is immediately offputting as it suggests a strong bias straight off the bat. I'm also wary of lots of fancy graphs when discussing economics, even in fields I am familiar with it's still easy to mislead and the independence referendum was a great example in how misleading they could be as on an almost daily basis there would be graphs showing similar data from both sides but would show a positive outcome for their side. I'm not convinced the Conservative approach is the right one but nor am I convinced on the SNP approach that everyone can have everything they want, the Corbyn camp seem to have switched to a very similar approach over the last few weeks.

John


Yeah, I agree with the language and the initial sense of bias, I work with figures and stats as my day job, and like you say it's very easy to skew numbers depending on what you want to show.

However, I have seen a few of these types of reports from different, seemingly well qualified individuals, and all seem to have a similar conclusion - that the Tories are not running things any better than a Labour governments of the past have, and potentially worse.

I have tried looking and I cannot find any studies that find the show an opposite conclusion. If anyone has seen any I'd be interested to read them.

j


Jim, I hope you appreciate what you're asking...it's hard enough to tolerate the posts scrolling by but you want me to delve into their heartland?? Amusingly, I spotted someone was ahead of you and posted a rebuttal to the information posted yesterday:

Image

The rebuttal to the rebuttal has been debating how you accurately account for inflation, the financial crash etc.

Speaking of misleading graphs, I was amused by this:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/why ... -do-to-you

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Postby se99paj » 08 Jun 2017, 18:47

I wouldn't say that I like either Labour or Conservative, but I'm leaning more towards Conservative as I agree with more of their policies.

I don't agree with increasing the tax rate for people earning £80k (I wouldn't be one of them as I don't earn anywhere near that much), having the top 2% contributing 40% of income tax doesn't seem that balanced. Also I don't think this will provide the returns that Labour want anyway as there are ways and means to reduce your taxable income (Pensions/Share Schemes) or those people would just work less hours, why slog away for an extra day a week when your going to get taxed 50%.

I'm not an expert on corporation tax either but it seems simple to meet that increasing the tax will just eat into profits and reducing returns for shareholders (A portion of which would be pension funds) or worst case cause job losses.

I don't agree with bringing the train lines into public ownership, they are already franchised, why would public ownership make them any better. Conservatives approach seems more pragmatic.
I don't agree with scrapping tuition fees, I think it will cause an increase in Mickey Mouse degrees and reduce take-up of apprenticeship. I don't think Conservatives have this right either but their approach puts more pressure on the universities to reduce their tuition fees.

Regarding the NHS I don't think anyone has an easy answer, everyone should be entitled to free healthcare and the staff should be paid a salary that increases (at least) in line with inflation - But I do think there is something fundamentally wrong with the NHS being in the top 5 employers in the world, this can't be sustainable and I'm not sure pumping more money into the NHS is the answer.

The one thing I hate is that this election, just like brexit has been filled with lies from all parties, the newspapers are all one sided and social media is filled with fake news, its very difficult to get the real facts and figures.
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Election - Who you voting for and why?

Postby EviL Ras » 08 Jun 2017, 19:58

I'm going to be glad when this is over tomorrow! Sometimes i wonder if i should get into politics, then i get back my senses!

No idea whats going to happen. I think it will be a hung parliament. But the polls suggest that the Shy Tory is back in force. So maybe May will get enough seats to move forward with brexit without so much fighting.
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Postby Replicant » 08 Jun 2017, 20:54

EviL Ras wrote:Source of the post I'm going to be glad when this is over tomorrow! Sometimes i wonder if i should get into politics, then i get back my senses!

No idea whats going to happen. I think it will be a hung parliament. But the polls suggest that the Shy Tory is back in force.


I agree that I cannot wait until its over. Both main parties and all newspapers have talked an incredible amount of bollocks. I would say the Tories have been the guiltier party here.

I believe that May will win and the right wing newspapers have massively talked up Labours chance of winning. This is a concerted effort to scare Tory voters to get out and not be complacent.
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Postby Johnmcl7 » 08 Jun 2017, 21:40

On the plus side with it being a snap election there's been a lot less rubbish than usual this time, it's only really this week my FB feed has been filling with the political stuff whereas previously it's gone on for months. That said I've taken a more aggressive approach to unfollowing people on FB posting political stuff all the time during the Scottish independence referendum, I had planned to add them back on later but then found it was still the '45' nonsense and decided my quieter feed was better.

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Postby Replicant » 08 Jun 2017, 22:00

Well the exit poll shows a hung parliament!! blimey. This will be interesting.
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Postby Johnmcl7 » 08 Jun 2017, 22:10

I'm not sure what to think of the polls as that's what they showed last time as well however I feel there's more support for Labour this time than there was under Ed Milliband.
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Postby EviL Ras » 09 Jun 2017, 01:45

Yup. 5/4 odds for another election this year. Talk of it being in 2 weeks if they can't sort out a minority government.

5/1 for boris to be tory leader too.

Basically it's all dual. I said jez would be pm, and they're trying to make that happen tonight. But will a minority government be able to pull off brexit?

Going to be a rocky few years no matter who gets in. But my money is on jez being pm shortly.
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Postby jurassicjim » 09 Jun 2017, 09:46

All sorts of crazy happening.

Be interesting couple of weeks...

Tories are really making a mess of themselves.

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Postby EviL Ras » 09 Jun 2017, 09:50

So basically the maths dont make anything work! The people thinking labour can form a minority government seem to be doing Diane Abbott maths!

The only way out now is Tory with the DUP to get over the line. EVERY other party against the tories. Or nothing and we go back to the polls in 2 weeks.

All this while the brexit people are twiddling their thumbs and watching the clock.

Yay democracy..

On the flip side Karen Buck LAB won our seat with 60% share of the vote. up from 46%. It was a tory target area.
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